Curse

QTFsniper · Jul 01, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Grind in PVP? Are you an idiot? You're doing the same thing you've always been doing. Now be happy that you're actually getting rewarded for it.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jul 01, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Look at it this way... people can now farm PvP! Woot!...!? Personally... I can't stand farming, unless special occasion.

Dumachum · Jul 01, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

People forget to include that once you unlock it ITS UNLOCKED FOREVER. Come on guys. This is the reason why Korea has started to hold the hall more and more. Whiney American brats sitting in the corner of a dark room, or GWG, sobbing that they can't be competetive unless they get everything handed to them and they'll quit, or won't play, till their "demands" are met by Anet. All the while Korea is out doing something and just getting it done.

And the rewards system DOES allow you to unlock things at a faster pace if you use it as an extension of unlocking things the normal way. Getting 3000 faction to unlock an elite may take a while compaired to loading up on signets and going to the proper zone with a hench party and grabbing the skill in 20 minutes. But most of the other unlocks are a LOT faster. I have YET to unlock a 4 or 5 version vampiric handle or string for any weapon. Nor have I unlocked a max hp handle, or a max sundering handle, or a lot of the top things and this has been going on 2 months now. All it will take for you is a couple good sessions of GvG and boom there you go.

Santosh · Jul 01, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

People forget that grind is doing hard monotonous routine work in order to get something. PvE farming was grind. Playing PvP is not grind. If you find PvP to be monotonous routine work, then don't play this game, it's not for you. Else, don't complain about it. They simply introduced PvP rewards where before there weren't any. They reduced the required grind by a LOT (now people don't need to farm for weeks to get a +30hp hale staff head), yet we see, more than ever, people complainnig about grind this and grind that.

Very well put, Red Locust. I agree with the above statement.

Zuggy · Jul 01, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

The problem seems to be that nobody is in a Guild. If you do PvP, then you should be in a PvP guild. The arenas I find are more of a distraction. I do the arenas when I don't feel like doing anything else. You could also do PvP in the tombs. which gives you more points then the arena.

I swear people are such liars. For months we kept hearing "well if they just make a way to unlock stuff in PvP we'll be happy" They did and the PvPers are whining because they want a UAS/R option. Put some effort into it for goodness sake. Find a guild, PvP in the tournament, the arenas aren't for mass faction gaining. Any idiot should be able to see that. Playing in the arenas is like pub hopping in any other online game. You don't really gain much from it, that's why you join a clan and play on the same servers so you can gain rewards, skill and a sense of how to play with a team.

Malchiel · Jul 01, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumachum

People forget to include that once you unlock it ITS UNLOCKED FOREVER. Come on guys. This is the reason why Korea has started to hold the hall more and more. Whiney American brats sitting in the corner of a dark room, or GWG, sobbing that they can't be competetive unless they get everything handed to them and they'll quit, or won't play, till their "demands" are met by Anet. All the while Korea is out doing something and just getting it done.

And the rewards system DOES allow you to unlock things at a faster pace if you use it as an extension of unlocking things the normal way. Getting 3000 faction to unlock an elite may take a while compaired to loading up on signets and going to the proper zone with a hench party and grabbing the skill in 20 minutes. But most of the other unlocks are a LOT faster. I have YET to unlock a 4 or 5 version vampiric handle or string for any weapon. Nor have I unlocked a max hp handle, or a max sundering handle, or a lot of the top things and this has been going on 2 months now. All it will take for you is a couple good sessions of GvG and boom there you go.

Haha yeah, even the Europeans are holding the HoH more and more.

Perhaps if the Americans would just shut up about the "I need all skills to win" and actually show some skill instead, this wouldn't have been the case.

Gawd, why are ppl bothered anyways to unlock all skills. Sure certain situation , new trends require you to run new strategy. But more often than not it's just one more skill I need to get, hardly more than that. Most of my old skills are still necessary as I don't build crappy builds. At the most I need 2 new skills in order to beat a new trend.

Sigh... I guess ppl who aren't good would simply blame it on anything they can mwahahaha. Sore losers.

Malchiel · Jul 01, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuggy

The problem seems to be that nobody is in a Guild. If you do PvP, then you should be in a PvP guild. The arenas I find are more of a distraction. I do the arenas when I don't feel like doing anything else. You could also do PvP in the tombs. which gives you more points then the arena.

I swear people are such liars. For months we kept hearing "well if they just make a way to unlock stuff in PvP we'll be happy" They did and the PvPers are whining because they want a UAS/R option. Put some effort into it for goodness sake. Find a guild, PvP in the tournament, the arenas aren't for mass faction gaining. Any idiot should be able to see that. Playing in the arenas is like pub hopping in any other online game. You don't really gain much from it, that's why you join a clan and play on the same servers so you can gain rewards, skill and a sense of how to play with a team.

Wrong, Arena is the most fun PvP if you meet the following 2 conditions

1) You have a dumbass guild... or a dead one, ;p
2) You can't find a good PuG in tomb.

Racthoh · Jul 01, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

The PvP unlock system makes sense, however those who use their PvE characters to PvP are at a slight disadvantage.

As some of your are saying, it is a lot easier to unlock stuff with the faction point system. In which case you can make your PvP character better without having to PvE at all.

Makes sense and all but, think about this -

They are nerfing farming with newer updates. PvPers who made PvE characters for the purpose of farming to unlock goodies for their PvP characters were no longer able to do this. But, now they have this faction point system that complete eliminates the need for them TO farm! But, what of the PvE players who want to do the occasional PvP battle? They will be completely outclassed by characters who didn't have to rely on the luck of the drop to get all the great runes and upgrades.

They simply have to continue what they enjoyed doing. Farmers however... can't continue to do what they enjoyed doing. PvEers will be screwed when they want to PvP against players who have the best possible equipment in the game. PvEers would have to grind until they earn enough gold to buy the equipment they need (which in some cases would be tens of thousands of gold). Even then they have to find the person who just happens to have the exact item you seek.

It won't be long until the PvE players are complaining about how much stronger PvP characters when they fight on another. Don't think I've ever played a game where the patches make the game worst...

Drakron · Jul 01, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Farming in PvE is always going to be luck, you can get a major rune you never unlocked in a purple drop or yet another ninor in that purple armor drop you just send 1 hour to get.

For example, I have yet to see a vampiric upgrade.

Farming is painful, its boring as hell and with henchies we get few drops ... worst is chest farming because now its suicide to go looking for a chest sole since there are mobs guarding then and they drop junk, with henchies they steal the chest drop most of the time so there is no much point.

Cap'n Hoek · Jul 01, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It won't be long until the PvE players are complaining about how much stronger PvP characters when they fight on another. Don't think I've ever played a game where the patches make the game worst...

I really can't see this happening. PvE players have other ways of gaining strength that aren't readily available to PvP players, such as purchasing things and capturing skills. The time PvP only players spend unlocking a certain item or skill will probably balance with the time spent by a PvE player making gold to be able to afford the item they want or capturing/questing skills.

Pitdragon · Jul 01, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

Gawd, why are ppl bothered anyways to unlock all skills. Sure certain situation , new trends require you to run new strategy. But more often than not it's just one more skill I need to get, hardly more than that. Most of my old skills are still necessary as I don't build crappy builds. At the most I need 2 new skills in order to beat a new trend.

Maybe it's because they enjoy trying new things as opposed to using the same build over and over again?

Weezer_Blue · Jul 01, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

I don't see what's not hard and monotonous about using the same build over and over even if it's a failed attempt at a good one because you can't get the tools available to fix it. PvE and PvP are miles apart from each other, but A.Net tryed to force them together with all this unlocking crap. People don't like being forced to play hours at a time so that they compete later on, even if the playing for hours at a time is in a part of the game they'd normally like.

And lose the rude bitchy tone... I'm sick of trying to respond in a civil matter to someone who's being an asshole.

wasteland · Jul 02, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

The major problem that I see is the lack of skills that are unlocked at the start of the game if you just want to play PvP characters. There isn't enough skills to actually create different templates and with a few exceptions your pretty much stuck with the ones your given.

I don't think an unlock all is the answer but there should be enough skills available to each PvP only class from the start to allow for mixing and matching different templates. Then by the time someone dedicated to PvP exhausts those possibilities they will have enough faction points to gain the other skills so they can try out some more.

Sayshina · Jul 02, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

quoted for mother****ing truth

no one said this is permanent, i'm sure anet will be modifying the reward system as they go.

I would like to mention what I'm tired of. All the PvE twits acting like this is their game and anyone who doesn't agree with them on how it should be managed should "go away", "shut up", or any of the many, many other flames.

When the world champion New England Patriots were in the superbowl against the Eagles, they switched back and forth between the 4-3 and the 3-4 defense. I'm sure the coach was very happy that he had unlocked the 3-4 defense earlier in the season after capturing it from the Stealers. Most experts would agree that an important key to the Pat's victory was their constant alignment changes, keeping the Eagles off balance. If there had been some arbitrary rule forcing them into a single base set, they MIGHT have won anyway, but considering how close it was I don't like thier chances.

In every sport I played in school, we were always allowed to use EVERY formation, set, allignment, and strategy allowed under the rules. This is the ONLY way to ensure a level playing field.

I'm sure most of you have played chess at some point. Imagine not being allowed to play with a rook until you had unlocked the rook skill doing something totaly unrelated to competitive play. You could still win some games without rooks, but against any half decent opponent it would be pretty embarasing for them to lose to your rookless army.

Sure, every other MMO works the same way, as you PvE tards have never ever gotten tired of pointing out. But as has been pointed out before, this game was advertised as and is still refered as a COMPETITIVE rpg. You cannot ever have fair competition without all involved parties having equal acess to all skills/equipment in the environment.

Until you are willing to pay us back for getting ripped off, I cannot see where you get off telling us to shut up. If ANet were really interested in customer satisfaction, a buyback program would have shut up just about all of us.

Eclair · Jul 02, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

Sure, every other MMO works the same way, as you PvE tards have never ever gotten tired of pointing out. But as has been pointed out before, this game was advertised as and is still refered as a COMPETITIVE rpg. You cannot ever have fair competition without all involved parties having equal acess to all skills/equipment in the environment.

Until you are willing to pay us back for getting ripped off, I cannot see where you get off telling us to shut up. If ANet were really interested in customer satisfaction, a buyback program would have shut up just about all of us.

Kinda off topic: Well, even real competitions are hardly fair in the way you're describing it. In the real world teams that have more funding, have better equipment, have better coaches, come from better backgrounds, etc all give a advantage. Nothing is truly ever fair.

Also, haven't you already played quite a bit of this game? You really can't return a product you already used for so much and expect full compensation =P Not to mention, the game is based on "skills", maybe just not the definition that you or me wanted. Also, it is a "competitive" game, just maybe not at the level you or me wanted. You can also just not spend very many hours and play "competitively" at the arenas lol, they never stated anything explicitly, so its hardly false advertising.

Nasenbluten · Jul 02, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I totally agree with this thread, i was a farmer before a-net made the change came back cos of pvp because im a duel type person like pvp and pve (im Bigamual) but with this update i think its more grind for people in pvp, i've had team that went 30-0 even 50-0 and we quit after the 50th game (Fake tank was my chars name if you were in my group pm me in game so we can talk

) no reward seems a bit dumb, just move to team arenas, and keep fighting, i think pts should raise after certain amounts consec. wins

My 2 cents

Shot Your Eye 20 R/me
Burning Hemrroid 20 E/me
Big Bong Hit 20 N/w

Sayshina · Jul 02, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

[QUOTE=Malchiel
Gawd, why are ppl bothered anyways to unlock all skills. Sure certain situation , new trends require you to run new strategy. But more often than not it's just one more skill I need to get, hardly more than that. Most of my old skills are still necessary as I don't build crappy builds. At the most I need 2 new skills in order to beat a new trend.

Sigh... I guess ppl who aren't good would simply blame it on anything they can mwahahaha. Sore losers.[/QUOTE]

And this is perhaps the single greatest obstacle to any mutual understanding. Those of you who PvP with your PvE toons are universaly horrid at PvP. You think your good, because most of you keep to the arena's, and if you can kill someone (anyone) in a PvP match, you must be better than them. If your team gets wiped out quickly, but you managed to kill someone, you will forever believe you have skill. Even if the truth is much more likely that they ignored you to concentrate on the rest of your team.

You only need 1 or 2 new skills to counter a new trend? And how many might you need to design a new trend yourself? How about if team needs requires you to get on a Ranger for a change? Of course, that doesn't fit with your RP concept of the game, so it must not be important.

The makers of this game have often compared it to Magic the Gathering. Can you imagine anyone on the Pro Tour not having 4 copies of every spell available for the environment? The arguement that they could probably counter Stompy with a little creature removal and keep using their solid blue control deck ignores one very important possibility: What if solid black control is suddenly the best way to go?

All of you PvE'ers are satisfied with good enough. You play 2 or 3 toons, and once you get attached to them, you're not likely to change out. What you really want is to force the rest of us down to your skill level, and for the most part you've succeded. PvE toons get several advantages and no disadvantages at all, and still there are no PvE guilds at the top of the ladder. Could it be that your skill level isn't all that after all? Could it be that your lack of understanding as to why anyone would need to unlock everything is a flaw in you, and not us?

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 02, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

With a good team in the random PvP areana it takes about 1:20 to win a battle. That's 14-22 points per battle (If no one drops before being killed and if they have one pet or more for higher ammount). So in 60 minutes you might have around 50 wins = around 700 points, so in 6 hours play you may have enough for two elites.

Is this time saved? Most likely not. Do you get to PvP untill you vomit? Yes.

Are we also forgetting that GvG wins = 200-500 points per win? With a good guild I doubt you'de need to grind too much

BigTru · Jul 02, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

How does them adding rewards for PvP make it any differant from when there was no rewards?

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 02, 2005, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

How does them adding rewards for PvP make it any differant from when there was no rewards?

Now you can play PvP and unlock stuff without having to play PvE for a longer ammount of time?